Today, on September 18, Scots will decide whether they want to stay with the Great Britain or opt for independence. This is a big day, not only for Scotland but for the entire world as this referendum will seal the fate of the United Kingdom.
It’ll be a great setback for UK if they lose in the referendum, as David Cameron expressed on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/511602869414686720
The Scots are very happy about this step, as people are seen waiting excitedly for the voting to begin. Many people have taken to the streets to show their support for the referendum. However, where Scotland celebrates this step, many English still condemn it. They are against this division and it also reflects badly on Cameron’s government. Those who oppose this referendum have expressed their views aptly on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/DanBrennan99/status/512291271063642112
https://twitter.com/NicholsUprising/status/512314184663826432
https://twitter.com/NickColeman/status/512318326228656129
https://twitter.com/Queen_UK/status/509600179784531968
https://twitter.com/theLadyGrantham/status/512090937397243905
Currently, Scotland has its own separate legal and education system, with defense, security and taxation remaining with England. Although the Scots have been trying to get independence for quite some time now, with the Scottish National Party hinting towards a separation on the pretence that Scotland was economically powerfully enough to sustain itself on its own, the final nail in the coffin was drawn with the 2010 elections when the Conservative Party won.
The Conservative Party is not very popular in Scotland and, as a result, Alex Salmond, minister for the Scottish devolved parliament, declared his intentions to hold a referendum; this step was supported by many Scots. The English government, after receiving an overwhelming majority of pro-union opinion polls, decided to go ahead with the plebiscite, believing that the end results would be in favour of a unified Britain. However, the new polls hint more towards an independent Scotland, which is a worrisome issue for England.
This news made me think about Kashmir, about its people who have suffered for so long and I desperately wished for them to have a similar opportunity to express themselves and cherish their right to choose. Sure, the Scots and the Kashmiris do not face the same problems, and England doesn’t have its army occupying Scotland, as it is in the case of Kashmir with Pakistan and India. However, as a state that wishes to be independent, and where a major section of the society wants to have a referendum in their land, I believe that Kashmir should be given a chance as well.
The Kashmir dispute has been a chord of contention between Pakistan and India since 1947 and even though a referendum was planned, according to United Nations resolution on January 5, 1949, it never got implemented due to the lack of support and consent from both parties.
It’s been a long time since we have observed turbulence in Kashmir. But news of innocent people getting killed in riots is not any different than that of people getting killed in Gaza. I still remember how Pakistan Television (PTV) used to show documentaries of atrocious killings in Kashmir after the nine o’clock news – as a kid, for me, it was very scary. I promised myself that I won’t go to Kashmir as I thought there was no love or justice there. But now, after visiting Kashmir and experiencing its serenity, I feel saddened to see them in the terrible state that they are. It is unfortunate to see them bear the brunt of a power struggle between two nations.
I wish Scotland best of luck for whatever they decide and vote for. It shall be accepted by the rest of the world and will set an example for countries suffering disputes – it will highlight the need for accepting the acquiescence of people, because that is the beauty of a true democracy. Let’s hope that Scotland’s win will pave way for Kashmiris to finally have a shot at a referendum.
The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necassarily reflect the views and policies of the Express Tribune.
Why not a referendum in Balochistan as well, have you ever imagined what would have happened if the creation of Pakistan was subjected to a referendum, would Pakistan have come into existence?
Buddy, the Q is specific to Kashmir, lets not bring in other parts of Pakistan into the debate. That is a debate for another day(if at all) …
Why don’t you start a referendum with POK first? Unlike Scotland the people who are asking referendum are not from the Kashmir (Kashmir is for Hindu Pundits), they are from deserts and Persia.
Nice try but the Kashmiri Muslims are just as Kashmiri as Kashmiri Hindus.
BTW Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan rebelled against the Hari Singh to merge with Pakistan; go read up about the Poonch rebellion.
@ET please post my comment
Hari Singh is not India.If the people of Kashmir want a referundum they will elect representatives who are pro-referendum.
Kashmir is for Hindu Pundits? Muslims are from ” Persia”. All the Hindu Pundits and brahmans came from Central Asia.
And, let’s do referendum in “POK”. Will see what side the people in “POK” choose:
“And, let’s do referendum in “POK”. Will see what side the people in “POK” choose”
As of now, they are not free to choose freedom and India, they are being given only one option which is Pakistan, I am not sure how do you not expect the Kashmiris living in the so called Azad Kashmir to choose Pakistan when that is the only option available to them.
Then how did I get to the South of India? What do they teach you in your history books and Urdu media..
Wrong.Majority of Muslims in J&K are local converts,just like the Muslims in the rest of India.History need not be changed to assert India’s rightful claim.
Nice try! But not impressed. Until and unless the aspirations of the people of Balochistan are addressed there cannot be peace in South Asia.
This blog is about Kashmir n about why it can’t have a referendum. Baluchistan is none of ur business.
This blog is about Kashmir n about why it can’t have a referendum. Baluchistan is none of ur business.
Ok, let’s do referendum in Balochistan, Kashmir, Khalistan, Nagaland, Manipur, Muslim areas and Maoist territories next door. Will you Indians agree to referendum then? Or, Balochistan is your sacred thread to keep colonizing Kashmir?
lets start with balochistan, we are sick of misrule. we have more natural resources than whole of Pakistan. will fight for my freedom, will seek help from any one who values our cause.
Balochistan is not the matter here in this debate nor is it any of ur business.
My comments keep getting deleted. Here goes again:
This debate is not about Baluchistan. Furthermore, Baluchistan is none of your business.
comparing the magnitude of kashmir and balochistan issue clearly depicts your intentions about this debate.
balochistan movement is so small in its size and effects that it is unable to influence even one province let alone south asia
Some of our friends from across the border actually believe in what you have said in sarcasm.
In Scotland Referrendum question was promoted by people ELECTED by the people of Scotland.
In Kashmir, the claims are leaders of Kashmir have never stood in Elections.
Sajjad Lone, another Separatist, lost the Elections, after foolishly entering it from North Kashmir.
Clearly people of not elected representatives who are in favour of referendum.
Why should we waste our time with one? If these so called Islamists-cum-leaders-of-Kashmir want it, they can stand in Elections and then claim for it.
There are no shortcuts in a Democracy.
‘Clearly people of not elected representatives who are in favour of referendum.’
It is irrelevant who is in favour or who is against. As long as Pakistani Army is standing in Kashmir, a referendum is not possible.
True. UN Resolutions that Paksitanis invoke explicitly states that the status quo shoudl be returned and Pakistani Army should move out of Kashmir.
Considering Pakistan changed the status quo by gifting part of Kashmir to China, this can never happen.
This UN Resolutions line is a ruse for their Army to gain power and wield unlimited influence over Pakistanis. Not one commentator here has read the UN Resolutions even once, especially those who invokes them.
Yes, there should be referendum in the case of Kashmir too, but, after 300+ years like the way it is in Scotland. So, there will be a referendum after year 2247 🙂
Referendums may work in Europe because the Euro is a stabilising factor. Basically Scots will be leaving one Union (UK) to join another (EU)
But imagine what has happened in Africa, Libya, Nigeria, Syria etc. Much worse will happen in Kashmir if it ever becomes independent. It will become the new head quarters of Al-Qaeda.
J&K is already a free territory ….. :-)) Need is to give freedom to PHK and GB.
Why do Indians always have to bring up Balochistan?The author is a Kashmiri herself, she isn’t a Baloch -so why bring that up?It’s not like we’re like calling a referendum in Assam or Manipur.
Kashmir and Balochistan are like apples and oranges; Kashmir is an internationally recognized dispute whereas Balochistan is an internationally recognized part of Pakistan much like Hyderabad Deccan or Assam or even Goa.
If you can compare far away Scotland with Kashmir, why not compare nearby Balochistan with Kashmir?
Balochistan is 100%, but in J&K, out of 3 regions, Jammu is Hindu majority, Ladakh is Buddhist.
I don’t think any Hindu in Jammu or Buddhist in Ladakh is keen to move away from India and give the reigns of power to Pakistan.
Balochistan has a better case of referendum than Kashmir. Don’t you think?
‘Kashmir is an internationally recognized dispute whereas Balochistan is an internationally recognized part of Pakistan”
Correct but the people at both places are asking for the same, am I not right?
If you feel bad for Kashmiris, why not for the Balochs?
It is not easy being in the business of “taking moral high ground” without being unfair.
Because Balochistan is not an internationally disputed territory for the international community, unlike Kashmir. There also has been a UN resolution on Kashmir, unlike Balochistan. So I hope you get it, according to the international law, community, Balochistan is an internal matter of Pakistan, while Kashmir is an international dispute. So I hope you get it, you have no right to talk about Balochistan.
so all we need is a UN resolution for balochistan to hold referendum. so be it. Time for balochis to take note. your oppressors have spoken out. Now it is up to you.
Nehru took the issue the UN and Un asked for a plebiscite and neither of the two countries concerned agreed to the terms and hence the plebiscite never happened, not that India would have wanted it to happen. Also, the accession of Kashmir to the Indian state is legal and on papers, the issue is Kashmiris especially many Muslims do not see their future with India.
Much water has flown down Indus since then and even UN does not agree it has a role today. Nation states do not settle their issues by conducting referendums but they do it by addressing them, it might take decades but if we can do it in Punjab and Mijoram, we can do it in Kashmir too. One must not give up on the idea his country stands for.
By all means have a referendum in Baluchistan or any part of Pakistan because you will find that most people support the state. A few tribal sardars on foreign payrolls don’t change the reality that most residents of Baluchistan are pro Pakistani. Once the border with Afghanistan is secured you will see that attacks instigated from across the border will stop. Kashmir on the other hand is a problem from the time of partition when the British schemed with the Indians to deprive Kashmiris of their destiny. A referendum held there will confirm the reality because most Kashmiris would be closer to Pak due to geographic, racial, religious and historical reasons. The truth is that no one can hold a people forever in today’s world. Kashmiris just need to keep in track with their aspirations and eventually they will get their freedom. If India agrees to hold a referendum in Kashmir under UN if Pakistan does the same in Baluchistan so be it! It will confirm what most Pakistanis including my family in Quetta already know.
Per UN Resolutions pakistan has to move it’s troops out of Kashmir and restore status quo for any referendum.
So is Pakistan willing to follow UN resolutions or not?
It is avoided! None of the Pakistani want to ruin their day after
reading the hate, the poison, the viciousness Rest assured regular readers avoid this. only diehards
are here.battling 1.7 billion hindu trolls.
Balochistan is an integral part of Pakistan.
Don’t forget referendum in anuranchal Pradesh, Hyderabad,khalistan,Assam,bodoland,nagaland,Tripura,dravida nadu?????
yes there was and they decided to join india
Also there are electiond every 4-5 years where they decide their state’s faith
Havent seen anything else apart from apsiration of growing with India in these states.
Not sure which histroy book/newspaper you read.But time to change them for sure
“Scotland referendum: If they can have it, why can’t Kashmir?”
Becoz there is no provision for a referendum for independence as far as Kashmir is concerned …
The Scots still want the Queen to be their head, just as Australia and Canada are independent states, but have the same queen as head of state. Kashmir, along with another 535 princely states merged into India. Imagine, if we want referendums in all these kingdoms. Can a state or city seek a referendum? would Baluchistan get a referendum? or the northern territories bordering Afghanistan?
There have been 19 resolutions pass in the UN general assembly for a referendum in Kashmir whereas none for Balochistan or Assam.
India’s first Prime Minister Nehru promised a referendum himself.
So, why did u not hold a referendum in East Pakistan? Oh I forgot, there was a full fledged election where the majority vote was not honoured, by some weird logic of idhar hum Udhar tum!
Freedom for Bangladeshis is good but not for Kashmiris. Why the sudden change in heart? I thought 1971 was you giving freedhum too Bangladeshis. Kashmiris don’t deserve freedom?
I agree, Muzaffarabad needs freedom too and I think time has come.
Ouch! That hurts!
Like Kashmir hurts you?
Kashmir is less violent than the single city Due to imposition of order, there have been very less violence. So much so that it received more Tourists than the entire country of Pakistan this year and the last!
why not baluchistan,karachi,pakthoonistan,waziristan,shiastan.
Why not Assam,Tamil Nadu,Nagaland,Manipur,Sikkim,Hyderabad or Goa?
come on google it out and you will know the name of all states. thanks for this article, Pakistanis are learning something other than……………………………..well, I will say people with long beards and ill bent of mind.
So, you have basically listed 7 states in India. I don’t see any correlation among them. I travel often to Tamil Nadu and have been to Hyderabad many times, FYI.
What is your point?
all these places will vote en masse to stay within Pakistan. I doubt Kashmir and “POK” will ever want to be part of your India.
Jammu is Hindu majority, Ladakh is Buddhist. Why would any non-Muslim region anywhere in the world would want to willingly join Pakistan?
Please educate us.
I think Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist majority Ladakh would beg to differ.
Scots have not persecuted, killed and exiled the native inhabitants of the land at the behest of non-state secessionist mullahs to seek strategic depth. Where is the comparison?
yes I completely agree with the author. gone are the days when might was right. every individual has a right to live in his/her own way. Kashmir deserves a referendum. As an Indian I support this. But what matters is the duplicity of things. We would like to see Balochis along with kashmiris free. Lets hold referendum simultaneously in Balochistan and Kashmir. Hope people like the author support this.
What about Assamese and people in the Northeastern states of India?
to all the Pakistanis who think assam and other states of india seeking referendum, I have no problem with that or any indian does. the point is we are together by choice and citizens of our country believe in diversity. If hypothetically any of the indian state becomes a country, they will miss out on what India is and will be. The decision is economics and wealth. it is like this, just imagine you have got a job in china with all the benefits or stay wherever you are with bullets flying around and you don’t know how long you will be alive. India is at a stage where it can offer referendum to its states. Those asking for it should emulate or just forget about it.
It is not a question of might is right but rule of law. There are several conditions listed to allow plebiscite in Kashmir. Pakistan has not fulfilled any of them. Further terms of plebiscite only allow Kashmiris to choose India or Pakistan. They do not have an azaadi choice despite the deliberate misleading that leaders do with Kashmiri people.
Further there was no such demand in KAshmir valley
There’s no point in lumping Balochistan and Kashmir together. Balochistan is an integral part of Pakistan!..Yes, the province faces a lot of law and order issues but hopefully, a time will come when their voices will be heard and their grievances will be addressed. On the other hand, Kashmir is a disputed territory. The only way forward on the issue of Kashmir is to go ahead with the plebiscite on both sides of the border. You cant go around committing human rights violation on a day to day basis and expect people to not fight for Azadi?.
I knew someone was going to bring it. Well, the two are separate issues altogether. Kashmir is split between two countries. The independence demand is on religious grounds, but the other religions have been kicked out forcibly. If India didn’t have any special status for Kashmir, it would be a completely different demography today. So, there is no relationship between Scotland and Kashmir. Dreaming doesn’t do much good. Along these lines, should China also conduct votes? Should Pakistan?
FYI Balochistan is split between 3 countries viz. pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan as well. And in Kasmir the demography has been disturbed by kicking out the kashmiri pandits with slogans of Convert Run Or Die.
Apparently, the author who describes herself as an “avid reader” has not read all of the preconditions required for a referendum to take place nor read the Shimla Agreement.
For starters Scottish did not ethnic cleanse English out of their lands in the name of holy war. There is not a much bigger Uber Scotland right next to Scotland that is even more committed to wage jihad in England.
Scottish are unlikely to bomb bus stations,railway stations and slaughter unarmed English…..Scottish are unlikely to come with AK47 rifles to mow down unarmed civilians waiting on railway platforms…..on and on….
I just read your title….you have a great sense of humour….
This is what happened when Indian textbooks have no word to explore the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Jammu and Hyderabad.
No textbook in this world has any reference to the “ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Hyderabad” because IT NEVER HAPPENED……
If you believe if its true,then show me any reference to that….I will stop commenting in ET board
Why don’t you show otherwise reference. Denial of history does not change history.
How can he show a reference to something which doesn’t even exist, genius?
Can you prove to me there are 10 planets in the Solar System?
How can Textbooks talk about things which never happened? Even Muslims from Hyderabad don’t allege cleansing..
Do Pakistani texts have anything to say about ethnic cleaning of Bengalis,a well known and documented fact?
What about Balochistan!!
This blog is about Kashmir n about why it can’t have a referendum. Baluchistan isn’t the topic here.
see above
And who will vote in this referendum on the pakistani side? Pakistani kashmir has already been occupied by ordinary pakistani migrants whereas in india an ordinary indian cannot live in kashmir. The referendum is impossible now .
I believe Pakistan respects the UN resolution for a referendum that India denies.
Azad Kashmiris will vote also and WE hate the Ganges Civilisation. We are the Indus Valley people from Kashmir to Karachi this is the Indus.
Don’t you worry about Azad Kashmiris.
The Pakistani diaspora in the UK is 90% Azad Kashmiri and we love Pakistan and our history and have ZERO affiliation for the people of the Ganges a people whose culture language history geography and numerous faiths under the banner of Hinduism is totally Alien to us.
“Azad Kashmiris will vote also and WE hate the Ganges Civilisation. We are the Indus Valley people from Kashmir to Karachi this is the Indus.”
Bro, the language you speak day in and day out with such pride was the product of the civilisation you love to hate so much. You want to make a future for yourselves while having utter contempt for your own past.
again perversion of history-a product of mullas’ mental yarns.As far referendum,it was entirely possible in 1948 or there about.Pakistan could have kept their part of the condition,and India would have been obligated to do so.What logic or thinking prevented Pakistani leaders from doing so is a mystery.Referendum is an impossibility now,after 3 generations.
Is there no end to naivety?
What referrendum? Kashmir is an occupied territory
How can you hold a referendum in a place where the owners of the land have been pushed out or killed.
Comparing Apples with Oranges,eh!!!!
Why Kashmir cannot have a Scotland like referendum.
1.Scotland has one stakeholder,England…Kashmir has 3 stakeholders,India Pakistan and China(Aksai Chin)
2.According to 1948 resolution,Pakistani army has to vacate POK before the plebisicite could start…Is pakistan ready to do that??
3.The indigenous population of Scotland has been preserved in Scotland, In POK,during 1950s,around 3 million Punjabi Pakistani were migrated fearing of an impending invasion by India. In Jammu and Kashmir,around 3 lakh Pandits were driven out of Kashmir..
4.If Scotland gets independent,it wont try to expel or target the minority English people living there,but with hatemongers like Geelani,Mirwaiz and others who are currently busy trying to block army help to the displaced Kashmiris,one can only dream of the bloodbath which could happen when they get independence
5.According to Shimla Pact,India and pakistan decided that Kashmir can only be decided by bilateral agreement and no other country or organization can intervene…
Good work sister.
why can’t we do it in Balochistan??
lets arrange vote in Baluchistan this month without any delay!!
Referendum for What? Indian subcontinent was divided in 1947 between Muslims and non-Muslims. No more partition.
Kashmir should have had a referendum when UN asked for it after India approached it. It is long overdue!!
Kashmiris cannot have it because – India is not UK and Kashmir is not Scotland. Indians are not seeking any certificate of good behavior from anyone on the planet Indians will not hesitate to put half a gram on lead into every Kashmiri who dares to ape a Scotland. And in this exercise, we will be backed by the Russians, Chinese, Sudanese, Turks and may more.
“..Scotland referendum: If they can have it, why can’t Kashmir?..”
Lift your veil, the veil of ignorance and the veil of irrationality that creates false equivalence such as above, and you shall see the light. Behind the veil, there is only ignorance and darkness.
Madam, you obviously don’t know Kashmiri history. Kashmir has been a part of us LONG before your came into existence. Kashmir is part of us for over 5000 years.
The future of Kashmir in 21st century cannot be decided by those, whose loyalty is to an imperialist-totalitarian ideology created in 7th century Arabia.
In the 66 years since January 1948 the agents of this arab ideology have done a lot to prove themselves as instruments of an alien arab imperialism.
The Scots in Scotland have not resorted to violence or to any collaboration with an ideology created in Arabia.
My comments keep getting deleted. Here goes again:
As long as Pakistani army is stationed in POK, a referendum cant be held in Kashmir. How difficult is it to understand that !!!
Same question goes for Indian Occupied Kashmir! 700K army equals to total size of Pak Army deputed in Kashmir! Why you can not face truth, you call ur self democratic then go for Referendum in Kashmir if you are not liar
Define democratic for me please …
The UN resolution requires the Pakistani army to be withdrawn NOT the Indian army. Secondly, it requires the demography o be preserved, which Pakistan has not done. Please go and read the UN resolution before you comment.
A resounding slap on the face of UNO and India. Well done Sehrish.
Kashmir is a disputed territory and the UN has already passed the resolution 47 in which it has called for holding plebiscite to decide the fate of Kashmir. The people of Kashmir have been demanding right to self determination since 1947 but the Indian administration is not willing to implement the UN resolution. Balochistan, on the other hand, is not a disputed territory but the situation in the province has been made turbulent in order to gain advantage on the Kashmir issue.
UN Resolutions say the following has to happen before Plebiscite: “As the presence of troops of Pakistan in the territory of the State
of Jammu and Kashmir constitutes a material change in the situation since
it was represented by the Government of Pakistan before the Security Council,
the Government of Pakistan agrees to withdraw its troops from that State.
”
You can read the whole Resolution here..
http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/documents/jkunresolution.html
So, do you support Pakistan following the UN Resolution to the letter?
To All Indians, for Baluchistan there no UN resolution but for Kashmir there are plebiscite resolutions.
So?
U r right. But what r the conditions for the same ??? Ever bothered to read up on the same ???
To All Indians, for Baluchistan there no UN resolution but for Kashmir there are plebiscite resolutions.
If they have Secular system why not for Pakistan,
If they don’t have any Blasphemy laws then why for Pakistan?
If they don’t have Jehadi factories why is epicenter?
If they don’t like Veils why used these Burqua?
Dear author you are comparing Apple to Chili Pepper
My comment have same illogical or may be logical points just like your
If the Pakistani army is present in Kashmir even in 2247, there can’t be a referendum held even then …
What is the use of referendums? Muslims voted for separate state but India is still straddled with 200 million Muslims. If we agree for Kashmir, will you take them all to Pakistan?
One is under occupation and the other not……for a referendum ground realities have to be conducive for such an exercise.
You certainly ‘ set the cat out among the pigeons ‘…….nicely written.
come on compare Kashmir and ajk, don’t give into your emotions. may be I am biased, look for yourselves.
big controversy! Being an optimist why u don’t go for referendum in Kashmir as per UN resolutions! This is our right to decide our fate!
No. They will not. They have two standards. For Muslims set of rights are different and for Hindus another.
Sure follow the UN directives ….. Get pak army out of Kashmir. Get all original population back in pok and please ask china to return your gift. And then let’s do the referendum.
Please start with your occupied Kashmir and let us take it further.
what about human rights violations in balochistan? well I live in balochistan and I think quetta deserves much more than Lahore.
I am a proud baloch and they way we are living tells me we need referendum ASAP than anybody else in the world.
balochistan must be free it predates Kashmir issue. stop colonizing us. free balochistan.
I’m part Baloch and a proud Pakistani. Pakistan Zindabad.
u forgot one more little pakistans around the world…..lol and I am glad baloch is getting attention. lets celebrate baloch independence. long live balochistan.
you have mentioned this point of sajjad lone and (so called) booming tourism in kashmir a million times and you disappear every time you get a logical answer and then reappear with same old words.
how do you do this???
copy paste or you type it again every time
Is it not true?
Kashmir is getting more Tourism than the entire country of Pakistan.
Sajjad Lone DID contest elections and lost. Both are facts, which the Pakistani media has not reported. How do you explain Sajjad Lone’s loss? Or, why would people come for Tourism to a troubled spot?
What is the logical answer you talk about? I only know handful of logical people in Pakistan and would like to add your name if you sound logical
Why just Kashmir? We want referendum on partition itself. Why special status only for Kashmiris?
Is Kashmir not a disputed territory?
As far as India is concerned, it is not. Now before u say “in the eyes of the world n blah blah blah”, I am more concerned about what India thinks of itself rather than how the world does.
anyways Scots have voted no in the referendum. I hope a referendum is also conducted in Karachi- if not for a separate country, at least for a separate province!
Organize referendum in India,Pakistan and Bangladesh for “United India”.
Well the referendum is over and Scottish have decided to stay with the Union. More importantly they did so peacefully. Had West Pakistani leaders relented gracefully to the majority vote in the elections, thousands of lives would have been saved. A new generation of Bangladeshi’s would have goodwill towards Pakistan. Now they do not even wish to play cricket on our soil. We should concentrate on our own people rather than the Scottish. The Scottish have done so with grace.
Listen Black lady , Those who are asking for referendum , they can contest in elections and show their majority and Kashmir will go to them . After all referendum is nothing but a vote . We don’t care so-called Gilani, Jilani,Pilani and malanis . We put all of them under the sole of our shoes . And one day we will take out part of Kashmir including GB back .
all indians can say in bad faith is Baluchistan..not go to jail card for
them?????? poor chiks..cant differentiate between an internationally
recognized dispute and a mischief by some sardars backed by anti Pak
forces!!!
we have clearly said Kashmir is integral part of India why bloody discussions Lets have referendum when to convert loc into a intrenational border
You missed a key part of the Resolution – Pakistan was to remove all her troops from POK and then a referendum was to be conducted. The last time I checked Pak troops are still there 60 years later. The UN Resolution is as good as dead. No pint trying to whip a dead donkey. ts no going to get up andwalk. Besides, India knows way too well – there is very little appetite for any more for such referendums for almost every other world power has a similar problem and what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Under the Article 25 of the UN Charter, UN member states are bound to carry out”decisions of the Security Council in accordance with the present Charter”. It is surprising that a country like India, which aspires to be regional power and is a member of the UN, has not implemented a resolution approved by the UN for Kashmir. It should be noted that it was India not Pakistan which took up the issue of Kashmir in the UN. If India has reservations regarding Pakistan’s military presence in the disputed territory then why is it that India has not expressed these reservations in the UN since last 67 years?
You may draw your own conclusions. Article 25 will be one more of the resolutions of UN which will never ever be implemented. Yes India did make a mistake taking this issue to UN. But then you do forget that your elected PM signed a deal with Mrs Gandhi taking it off the UN Table in 1972 under Shima Agreement and converting it into a bilateral issue. This was acknowledged by non other than Ban Ki Moon, the UN SCG last year. India has absolutely no intention of implementing the Resolution and Paksitan or Kashmiris can do absolutely nothing about it. Our ambitions of becoming a regional power will be realized without this in due course.
Pakistan has been raising the Kashmir issue on all available forums including the UN and will continue to do so even if India likes it or not. In order to become regional power, India must have a clean record and Kashmir issue can be considered a black spot in this case. Not counting the fact that India has border issues with Bangladesh and China as well.
Pakistan has been raising the issue at all forums. Did you notice India flinch? India does not need a certificate of good conduct from Pakistan or anyone else on the planet to become a regional or world class power. The Chinese became one while crushing the rights of Uighurs and Tibetans. The Russians are a world power despite crushing the Chechens and bombing Grozny into Stone-age. India is in no hurry to become a world power or regional one as yet. Our current ambitions center around feeding, educating and sheltering our people and butchering the jihadis. We are doing a decent job of that and our hold on Kashmir has only consolidated . Feel free to talk at every international forum you can find. Its costs no one any money. As for border disputes, look at your best friend China. They suffer the same problems. Nothing unusual for any emerging power.
“In order to become regional power, India must have a clean record and Kashmir issue can be considered a black spot in this case.”
US is the sole superpower, you must be the biggest advocate of the American foreign policy because by your logic, the US would not be a superpower unless it had a clean record.
Let Indians worry about their future prospects Lady, you take care of yourself.
Kindly stop telling Pakistanis too about the way they should run their country. Let us Pakistanis “worry about our future prospects”.
Are you claiming Kashmir from Japan? People like me would comment as long as a particular issue has relevance to India.
Well then people like me from Pakistan will also continue to express our reservations because Kashmir has strong relevance to Pakistan as well.
then be ready for the rebuttals as and when you make illogical comments, back to square one.
“….Kashmir has strong relevance to Pakistan as well.”
I know, it is your jugular vein as described by one of the former dictators of your country, I can sense your frustration not having control over all your veins.
Well to begin with, I had merely expressed my views on the article but I guess I touched a raw nerve which is why I am seeing “frustrated” comments from across the border over the ‘integral part’ which is sadly not as integral as it is claimed to be. And yes rebuttals need to ‘logical’ don’t you think?
First things first, you did not respond to my comment rebutting yours about India not having a clean record rather you picked on me for something else and hence I responded in kind.
“….over the ‘integral part’ which is sadly not as integral as it is claimed to be.”
How is it not an integral part, India claims it, India has it and has no intentions of letting go of it, you have a course of action which is going to get you Kashmir? Generations of Pakistanis have tried
“And yes rebuttals need to ‘logical’ don’t you think?”
If you think every rebuttal on the blog space is logical, you need to rethink of your definition of the word “logic”
If you can review the comments on this blog, you can see that I had replied to Jag Nathan but you picked up my comment and issued your ‘rebuttal’.
Regarding your comment about the US stance and India becoming the super power, I hope you understand international relations, diplomacy, and regional politics. India can become regional power; the only hurdles it faces in the way are Pakistan and China. I hope you are aware of Pakistan’s opposition to India seeking permanent membership of the UNSC on the basis of India’s bad record on human rights, unsatisfactory relations with its neighbors etc. If the US wants to set up India as a rival of China in Asia, then the Chinese veto will likely create further hurdles in this regard. If India can handle its issues with neighboring countries including the Kashmir issue in an effective manner, it will have a clean way of becoming a regional power as many regional countries support India.
“Generations of Pakistanis have tried” True and will continue to do so because whether you like it or not but we do believe that Kashmir is Pakistan’s “jugular vein”
R u aware under which Chapter of the UNSC the resolutions on Kashmir have been passed ?
If a referendum will happen as a Kashmiri from Pakistan occupied Kashmir is saying this that they would vote independence from India but also Pakistan. I have seen a recent surge in pro independence and wanting a separate nation in recent times
Why not a referendum? It is their right. Even if all of Kashmir becomes independent, it would naturally align itself with Pakistan due to its location and culture which matches Pakistan. A lot of my family in Azad Kashmir and Punjab go back and forth like it’s the same. You’ll see as many Kashmiris in Kashmir as in other parts of Pakistan so a refernedum on complete independence is also good for Pakistan since we consider ourselves Pakistani anyways. No one can change that. I don’t relate at all to people in Tamil Nadu or Bihar like I can relate to Lahore. Even Nawaz Sharif is Kashmiri.
“Even Nawaz Sharif is Kashmiri.”
So was Nehru, Indira Gandhi, Justice Markandeya Katju, Tej Sapru, Preeti Sapru, Anupam Kher, Rohit Bal, Mohit Raina, Suresh Raina etc. etc. …
Do they not figure in ur scheme of things ???
After 67 years people who wish to migrate should be allowed to do so. All South Asian countries should open its citizenship legally, with minimum paper work, so people can choose where to live, as in the European Union. Many problems would be resolved. Kashmiri’s will be able to decide where to live. Minorities will be able to decide on both sides of the border. There will be goodwill if this step is taken, this is long overdue. Just open up the borders, and let people decide where they wish to be.
Lol, is that how they’re justifying the Kashmiri occupation these days in India? “It’s either us, or Al-Qaeeda will take over”.
Not really Faraz, it is very simple for an Indian, a referendum in Kashmir is not on offer and neither is Kashmir.
Legally it’s us who have the accession agreement.
Its not occupation for Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists of J&K, certainly. Hurriat, who are claiming this as occupation and claim to be representative of Kashmiris have never stood for elections.
Jammu is Hindu majority, Ladakh is Buddhist. Have you ever thought what an average man from Jammu thought if India was occupying his state?
Remember what Jinnah said about one-man-one-vote principle. I wonder if that logic can be applied to the minorities in J&K.
Each Minority Community should have equal say with what happens to J&K. This is the rai·son d’ê·tre of Pakistan’s existence, isn’t it.
No, that’s not the justification. The justification is the Constituent Assembly of J&K(consisting of elected members due to elections in August–September 1951) ratifying the state’s accession to India with a unanimous vote.
Pakistan has always rejected these elections n the subsequent Constituent Assembly’s actions. But that is the Pakistani point of view and even the UNSC resolution 91 states that:
“Observing that on 27 October 1950 the General Council of the “All Jammu and Kashmir National Conference” adopted a resolution recommending the convening of a constituent assembly for the purpose of determining the “future shape and affiliations of the State of Jammu and Kashmir observing further from statements of responsible authorities
that action is proposed to convene such a constituent assembly and that the area from which such a constituent assembly would be elected is only a part of the whole territory of Jammu and Kashmir”
But again this is under Chapter VI of the UNSC charter, a non-binding resolution(an opinion if u may).
Al-Qaeda first have to take Pakistan before even thinking about India.And majority of Pakistanis will resist that from happening.A few like yourself can keep hoping,as they hoped the TTP would take over Pakistan-but won’t happen.Such terrorist organizations have only killed Muslims and destroyed the infra-structure of Muslim countries only.
no one in India needs to justify an ‘occupation’ because there is actually a signed instrument of accession. The UN resolution could not be held until 1972 because
1) Pakistan did not pull out the army from Kashmir which was a prerequisite for te plebiscite
2) Pakistan did not preserve the demography of Pak administered Kashmir and filled it up with Mohajirs and Punjabis contrary to requirements of the plebiscite
3) Pakistan gave away a part of Kashmir to China making it impossible to conduct plebiscite in the entire Kashmir.
As a result of these 3 factors, it became clear that plebiscite was a on starter as ots conditions eould never be fulfilled and Simla agreement was signed by India and Pakistan stating that Kashmir was a bilateral issue and therefore UN has no role o play in it.
Sir, I found you rational enough to talk and discuss something that i want you and all others to know.
this whole night of research gave me enough knowledge to state that the whole of kashmir was never ours but neither was it pakistan’s before 1948.
india respected the decision made by kashmir which was well governed by Maharaja Hari SIngh along with the then Prime MInister of kasmir, Sheikh Abdullah, but why didn’t pakistan.
it was only because of the request made by kasmir’s ruler and Mr Sheikh Abdullah that india accessed Kashmir then how does the question of forcefully capturing of kasmir by indian-forces arises.
its because of the pain and terror that kashmiris have been living through that they might not support india in a referendum because it has always been us whom they see as enemies unaware of the fact that Indian forces tries to stick with its purpose of defense rather than attack.
We love Kashmiris and we want them to stay in peace and harmony.
I as many other Indians respect Pakistan and we want you to reciprocate the same way,i.e., respect INDIA.
That’s an atrocious argument.
Are Kashmiris going to become LESS hostile to Indian forces if you occupy them against their will? You’re using the symptoms of a military occupation, to justify the occupation itself! It’s circular reasoning.
No … it is quite valid reasoning … the Scottish referendum does not have religion as the basis … nor does Scotland pose any security threats to England, that Kashmir can to India … division of the region based on religion was done in 1947 …
Lets be honest here.. Kashmiris are NOT hostile to Indian forces. Because Pandits are also Kashmiris, Hindus from Hindu majority Jammu are also Kashmiris and so are Buddhists from Buddhist majority Ladakh.
Its not politically correct to speak for all Kashmiris, assuming them to be all Muslims.
Can you show me one member of the Hurriat who is a Pandit?
Please use words carefully. The more appropriate, more accurate and factually correct phrase is : small minority among the Kashmiri are hostile to Indian forces. Am I wrong in saying this?
You say ‘small minority among the Kashmiri are hostile to Indian forces. Am I wrong in saying this?’
Then, I seriously doubt in capability of your forces. They are 800,000 and engaged by such a minority (civilians) who do not have resources like your forces have. They are fighting an indigenous war of freedom and this is their right, even if they are in minority. They will win freedom and that shall be followed by freedom of other regions of India.
The policies of Modi government shall be a catalyst. Kashmiris (even as you say in minority) have witnessed the attitude of Indian Government in recent floods.
Show me one independent source which says India has stationed 800,000 troops in Kashmir.
Every year that figure is increasing by 100,000. When I started reading Pakistani newspapers, that figure was around 300,000, now magically its gone up to 800,000!
And, THEY are not fighting Indian forces. Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs(even Shias and Ahmadis) are pro-India. They are not foolish enough to support Islamists.
Only a small minority of Sunnis support these Seperatists. In a equal contest like an Election, they have no chance to win.
Just like Islamists in Pakistan can’t win more than 10% of the votes, but grab the headlines with their antics, these Islamists too can’t win Elections. They have no real support which is needed to win Elections.
One guy from Hurriat believed his own lies and stood in an Election from North Kashmir. Google and see what happened to him, his name is Sajjad Lone.
You don’t get referendum in Kashmir after 25 years of terrorism and bloodshed, and making millions of Kashmiri homeless … moreover, (1) you will have to vacate your portion of Kashmir before any such referendum and (2) Aksai Chin gifted to China has to be brought back, can you do that ???
This debate is not about Baluchistan. Furthermore, Baluchistan is none of your business its truth .
It is for some reason that you don’t comprehend.
A referendum can be held only if there is a guarantee that fascists will not win.
I am Kashmiri and like most Kashmiris a referendum will be welcomed by me but it will not happen because of India. Pakistan have whatever interests they have in the region but the problem is and always has been India. If Indians think we will ever be happy being occupied think again. The reason militants are in Indian occupied Kashmir rather than Pakistan Kashmir is because the Pakistanis do not go around subjecting Kashmiris to their will. We have been occupied since partition and any resistance against occupation is fully justified. The Indians will make sure that Kashmiris are not given a vote because they know which way we will vote. Pakistan is not perfect but they do not terrorise the population. A fight against India in Kashmir is not terrorism. It is not Kashmiris who are terrorists. We may not like Pakistan but we hate India.
please you don’t understand the pain of “full” baloch. free baloch.
1 million Kashmiri Muslims displaced by Indian Forces
Over 500,000 massacred by Indian forces recorded rapes of Muslim women is 100,000.
Mass unmarked graves were found where missing massacred Kashmiri Muslims were buried by Indian Forces.
Don’t teach and twist our misery.
Can you list such figures of IDPs, murders and rapes from FATA and Baluchistan? If I will do it, moderator will remove it ….. :-))))
“1 million Kashmiri Muslims displaced by Indian Forces”
When did you start considering the Kashmiri pundits as Kashmiri Muslims? I agree though that many of the Kashmiri Muslims have gone to the other side of the Kashmir to either train and come back to fight or to escape the questioning of the security forces for being linked to the so called Mujahideens.
“Over 500,000 massacred by Indian forces recorded rapes of Muslim women is 100,000.”
Is it recorded anywhere else other than in your brains? Some women have been raped by both the sides and many have been killed too which is a disgrace but exaggerating the numbers of killed/raped is not graceful either.
Nobody is twisting misery of the Kashmiris other than people like you.
What has Bangladesh to do with genocide and displacement of Kashmiris by India?
Personally Bangladesh had to be made you can not have 2 nations as one separated by a common enemy in the middle.
If that be so, how you can have FATA … ?? KPK being in middle … :-))))
so you make your brother your enemy because there is an enemy in between.It is a perverted logic only thought about by Pakistan,and did not work ,as irrationality doesn’t.Now Pakistan has a ‘double enemy” -India and Bangladesh.
Buddy, the choice for Kashmiri muslims of the valley is very simple.
a) Accept the fact that u aint going anywhere, will be a part of india n make ur peace with it
b) Reject the fact that u aint going anywhere, be a part of india n be bitter about it
If u choose a), it will be a laddoo for u, if u choose b) it will be a bitter pill for u. In either case, whether u choose a laddoo or a bitter pill, it is going into ur stomach. The choice of rejecting the laddoo or the pill doesn’t exist.
Make the choice wisely.
Of course it is, no questions about it despite whatever problems the Pakistani state faces there, this is no sarcasm. You might have a different opinion of Kashmir and the world itself but as far as India is concerned, we should not be expected to lose it after having defended it in wars.
The reason I mentioned Balochistan was because the genesis of both the issues might be different but if you feel bad for people whom you perceive to be oppressed at one place, why not at the other.
Prashant have you ever been in Kashmir? why you don’t give us right to decide our fate! what you call local Govt. there, have you seen turnover there, have you seen black day really (in IOK) please face the truth! don’t run away from Truth
If any Kashmiri thinks he represents the majority sentiments of the people, he can stand in elections and prove his support.
Why is no member of hurriat willing to do that? Because they know they will lose. They have sajjad lone contesting and losing miserably.
Just like Islamists in Pakistan are powerful and bring down e state machinery, but get less than 10% of the votes! it’s the same with Islamists in kashmir masquerading as separatists.
Naveed, this was responded by me but has not been posted by the mods, another time may be. Cheers.
Lol nice joke read invasion of Hyderabad Kashmir and janugadh plus elections happen everywhere even in Afghanistan
Keep repeating this mantra. You will be blessed with more radicalism and extremism.
Ok buddy, I am done reading. Now what do u wish that i do ?
Compare it with Kashmir
Yeah, one is an apple, the other is an orange …
No
1. One leader wanted to join Pakistan and ither India
2. Majority were Muslims
3. Kashmir belongs to Pakistan as Hyderabad to india
Point 3: That is an opinion
Point 2: That is irrelevant(n FYI. neither HYD nor junagadh had/has muslims majorites, but as i stated earlier, that is irrelevant)
Point 1: That is the only fact u have stated
There are so many opinions here, let’s just review the facts that everyone here(Pakistanis,Indians,Kashmiris cannot deny).
1. Majority of Muslims in kashmir refuse to be part of Indian union.
2. Pandits,Sikhs and all other minority kashmirs are driven out by terrorist trained and sponsored by Pakistan
3. It is sad and as an indian I am ashamed to accept the fact Indian Army committed atrocities against kashmir civilian population.
4. India deployed Army in Kashmir only to control huge infiltration of pakistan trained terrorist.
5. Division based on religion never worked, Bangladesh is an example.
6. Pakistan foreign policy is defined by Army as long as Kashmir problem exist Pakistan can justify its existence and huge budget.
If you accept above facts there will be some sane discussion.
If one is to go by your “FACTS”,then No. 1 overrides everything else.Ascribing your beliefs on to others as facts is a fallacy.
Scotland did not send terrorists into England trying to browbeat them into conceding independence.
They did not unleash on the hapless Kashmiris the mujahideens trained to fight Soviet union in Afghanistan. That converted a “secular, peaceful” kashmiri into a rabid religious fanatic. So much so that Pandits (kashmiri hindus) who have lived in kashmir since dawn of history, were driven out of their own homeland.
So, what are the kashmiris fighting for?
The vote of “No” by Scotts only shows they acted prudently. Economic matters weighed in more than geopolitics.
Do kashmiris have enough of intelligence to realize once India leaves, Pakistan or China (or both) will move in? Pakistanis do not care about kashmiri rights. If they did, the condition of Kashmir in Pakistani part of kashmir would not be worse.
guys cool down, the writer is a Butt by caste and i believe by Kashmir she means ‘pakistani Kashmir’, i recently moved to manchester from karachi and for the first time i came to know that kashmiris actually hate pakistan (quiet astonishing), at one point outside a mosque i was asked to sign a petition which would help to start a debate in the british parliament about kashmir’s right to self determination not only from india but also from pakistan, infact i was told by my punjabi wife that they are actually trying introduce their own ‘ethnicity’ ‘Mirupuri'(which is in kashmir) in the official forms, they dont want them to be called Pakistanis.
Huh what kind of a rebuttal is that? Please show me a reference that explicitly denies that man lived on moon exactly 10000 years back !!!!!
Huh what kind of a rebuttal is that? Please show me a reference that explicitly denies that man lived on moon exactly 10000 years back !!!!!
Can u list them all out here please …
Sehrish you have done excellent job to awake the dead body of UN. But I don’t think UN can work on it. They are only working where the might is. Scottish referrendum is hijacked as well, They confused voters in last week with their controversial comments on Economy. Now Indians are finding their DNA relationship with Israel to make an alliance. But they don’t know Almighty has his own plans. We need to do our work without doubt!!!
1st referendum has to be done in Baluchistan under UN supervision. Then any other place.